Sub-channels, and channel group inheritance

[javaJake]

Alright, so, I've created a channel named, "Guild Wars 2", and I've created a channel group called "GW2 Officer". I've given this channel group just the permissions that will let them do their job.

At this point, I created a new identity, and gave that identity GW2 Officer permissions, just to test. I use bookmarks to switch between the server admin and test identities.

For the "Guild Wars 2" channel, I assigned both identities the channel group "GW2 Officer". This works. Both successfully enter the channel with the right channel group.

Here's the problem: When this test identity creates a sub-channel, and then enters the channel, it gets assigned the "Channel Admin" group. When my server admin identity enters the same sub-channel, it properly inherits the "GW2 Officer" group.

Why is that?

[SilentStorm]

The Client that creates a Channel automatically gets the Channel Admin Group. You can specify which Channelgroup is given to the Client that creates a Channel in the Edit Virtual Server Dialog but you cannot say that the Client inherits his group from the parent channel.

[javaJake]

The Client that creates a Channel automatically gets the Channel Admin Group. You can specify which Channelgroup is given to the Client that creates a Channel in the Edit Virtual Server Dialog but you cannot say that the Client inherits his group from the parent channel.

Actually, that's not correct. As you can see from my OP, the server admin identity inherits "GW2 Officer" channel group permissions from the parent channel. It even says "GW2 Officer [Inherited from: Guild Wars 2]" in their info area.

Here's what I've figured out so far:

• The channel creator automatically gets assigned the default channel group by the server, within that channel.
• This default channel group overrides inheritance if the channel group is not Normal. If the default channel group is Normal, then inheritance happens even for creators! Yay!
• If another user in the "GW2 Officer" channel group in "Guild Wars 2" enters a subchannel they did not create, they inherit "GW2 Officer" from the parent channel, regardless of default channel group settings in the server.

I've set the default channel group to "Normal", in that case. Is that safe to do?

[SilentStorm]

Actually, that's not correct. As you can see from my OP, the server admin identity inherits "GW2 Officer" channel group permissions from the parent channel. It even says "GW2 Officer [Inherited from: Guild Wars 2]" in their info area.

Actually I am correct in my previous Post. You stated that you used your Second Identity to create the new Channel, and all I said was that the Client who creates the Channel gets the Channel Admin Group by default, any other Clients will inherit the Channelgroup they have in the parent channel (unless they have been assigned a specific Group in the Subchannel or Inheritance has been disabled).
This is exactly what is happening on your end. Your second Identity created the channel and hence got the Channel Admin, while your Server Admin (first) Identity is nothing special in that Channel and hence inherits it's Channelgroup from the Parent Channel.

Here's what I've figured out so far:

• The channel creator automatically gets assigned the default channel group by the server, within that channel.
• This default channel group overrides inheritance if the channel group is not Normal. If the default channel group is Normal, then inheritance happens even for creators! Yay!
• If another user in the "GW2 Officer" channel group in "Guild Wars 2" enters a subchannel they did not create, they inherit "GW2 Officer" from the parent channel, regardless of default channel group settings in the server.

I've set the default channel group to "Normal", in that case. Is that safe to do?

Your first Point is wrong. The Creator (as said twice by now) gets the Default Channel Admin Group!
All the other Points I already stated in my Original Post in this Thread and again just now...
Setting the Default Channel Admin Group to the same Group as the Default Channel Group will work, however people who create Channels won't be able to do anything with their Channels, they won't even be able to talk themselves or allow others to talk if they create a Moderated Channel.
In addition to that the Default Channel Groups (both Channel Admin and the regular one) are server wide settings, so it will apply to anyone, anywhere on the server.

[javaJake]

All the other Points I already stated in my Original Post in this Thread and again just now...

Your reply felt very negative and "can't do" rather than "can't do it that way; try this instead". My reply was to say that I can do, and I can do it this way. You spoke in vague terms of "groups" and "channels" whereas I used specific names and procedures to get the effect I was looking for. You're only helping partially by writing short posts that contain just the first part of what would be an otherwise very helpful reply. (If I were good at reading tone in a post, I'd say you sounded burnt out from helping other people, but I'm not that good.)

Setting the Default Channel Admin Group to the same Group as the Default Channel Group will work, however people who create Channels won't be able to do anything with their Channels, they won't even be able to talk themselves or allow others to talk if they create a Moderated Channel.

So, the only issue is with moderated channels, in the event a server admin inadvertently creates a group that can create channels but can't edit them? This part is hard to follow.

[SilentStorm]

I was not intending to sound negative (and can't see how it could be negative but anyways opinions differ).
I was (and will always be) using general Terms which apply to a default Server Configuration as if the Server was started for the very first time. Firstly because I don't know anything about your (or anyone else's) Server Configuration and secondly because it can be helpful to more people that way. I will only be using configuration / User specific Terms if the User in question provided detailed enough information and it seems beneficial / more useful to do so.

As for the original Post being rather short: I am very sorry but I just don't have 20 minutes to spare writing a lengthy text at not even 6am in the morning... however it still contains all the necessary Information as to why it is the way it is (which was your Question) and it also contained information on how you might be able to solve it (which you did apparently).

Generally I am aiming to help without forcing anyone to read a lengthy post (which from my experience often results in tl;dr) if it can be condensed to a shorter / simpler statement. I am also tending to expect a certain Level of basic knowledge if the question doesn't clearly imply the lack of it. I do expect a certain level of willingness to concern yourself with the problem and think about it.

And no I'm not "burned out"

---

I just used the moderated Channel as an example.
The way you got it working is by setting it up that every User (both Creator of the Channel and every other user on the server) by default having the same Group in the Channel.
The Problem with that is that you either need to allow everyone to edit a channel (which applies to all Channels) or leave it at the default settings that only People that have a certain Channelgroup (namely Channel Admin by default) can edit a Channel.

Choosing the first Option poses a security risk as in that everyone on the Server can edit any channel (unless explicitly forbidden for certain Channels by Channel permissions). For example anyone could connect to your Server and rename any of your Channels to some hatred / bullshit names.

Choosing the second Option leaves you with the Problem that the creator of the channel will be assigned a specific Group (ie. Channel Admin) when they create a channel, which will prevent them from receiving their inherited Channelgroup. However if you set up your Channel Admin Group in such a way that they can revoke the Channel Admin Group then a User would be able to create a Channel (which will give him the Channel Admin Group in that Channel) but then revoke himself the Channeladmin group which would give him the Channelgroup inherited from the parent Channel. To do this you would need to give your Channeladmin group an equal Value in both i_group_member_needed_remove_power and i_group_member_remove_power.
That way you will achieve what you are looking for (with just 2 or 3 mouse clicks of additional work for the creator of a channel) without having to suffer the issues presented by using the same group for Creators of a channel and regular first time visitors.