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  1. #76
    Join Date
    October 2016
    Posts
    2
    Hey Guys,
    i thought about making a similar Thread in this Forum but more from a Developers perspective.
    Discord doesn't only have a clean UI and Free Servers but they also use latest technologies and this is what TS4 would need too. It would also decrease maintance effort a lot. Just to break it down Discord is completly developed with Webtechnologies like HTML, Javascript and CSS (in the Frontend [Client]). Now why does it make everything easier? It's because you just have to build an Webapplication which also is advantage number 1 you could access TS via your browser so you don't have to install a client if you don't want to. Advantage number 2 with Electron (Discord client is also based on it) you can easily build a Desktop Client for all Operating Systems without having to do much changes to the original Webapplication you already built in Step 1. But this is just a small part of what Teamspeak is missing.

    Just to name a few:
    - Bot support (A query is nice but doesn't enable you to build responsive bots)
    - Less usage of resources
    - A modern Textchat (Sorry but the TS chat is missing much features)
    - A cleaner UI which is easier to understand (I don't have a problem using TS but i know a lot of people who won't use it because it's "complicated")

    I know how much work a complete rewrite would be but the Software is now around 6 Years old which is a very long time if you think about how fast Technologies are evolving. Also I don'texpect that TS 4 will come in the next month but a usable Beta can be build in a year (I don't know how many devs are working on it but I assume it's not only 5 people).

    As a Teamspeak fan(using it on a daily basis) it's sad to see Discord taking over. Especially as a German Developer it makes me sad because nearly every big Service is coming from the US nowadays (Discord too).

    Greetings,
    xAzzzu

  2. #77
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    Quote Originally Posted by xAzzzu View Post
    Advantage number 2 with Electron (Discord client is also based on it) you can easily build a Desktop Client for all Operating Systems without having to do much changes to the original Webapplication you already built in Step 1. But this is just a small part of what Teamspeak is missing.
    [...]
    - Less usage of resources
    LOL.
    I don't know what else to say.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    October 2016
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by illumi241 View Post
    Electron is one of the worst developments today (in my opinion). Why would an app have to use its own webserver and browser? That way you can just use a web client... I prefer a native client or at least one without having its own webserver + browser built in. That is just bloated.
    If it is so bloated why does it use less resources on my PC than Teamspeak ?

  4. #79
    Join Date
    June 2014
    Posts
    13

    Unhappy

    Teamspeak is dying...

    Gametracker by years
    2012 -> 972 Page Server
    2013 -> 1005 Page Server
    2014 -> 871 Page Server (there have been many blacklist this year)
    2015 -> 906 Page Server (discord established)
    2016 -> 737 Page Server
    2017 -> 622 Page Server
    2018 -> 526 Page Server

    source: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https:...m/search/ts3/?

    *Design must be updated
    *Access from browser must be
    *License fees must reduced

  5. #80
    Join Date
    November 2017
    Location
    Cologne, Germany
    Posts
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by illumi241 View Post
    Damn cloudflare. Why do you need to set the "I'm under attack" setting permanently? I just lost all the content because I apparently took to long writing the content I intended to post. Auto saving doesn't seem to work or I can't figure out where it has auto saved my post, so I have to start this post from scratch. Thanks for that.
    With Firefox, I'm usually able to hit the back button and the browser remembered my input.

    But I guess that's just another example of TeamSpeak "not caring" as cheap DDoS mitigation appears to be more important than usability of their community hub. All in all, they seem to put little effort on presenting themselves properly.

    When you navigate the TeamSpeak website, you keep jumping between at least three different domains (teamspeak.com, myteamspeak.com and teamspeakusa.com) where the one which is meant to bring money - the "sales" one - has still not been updated to use the new design and on top of that relies on deprecated technology (Flash) to transport information which is kinda embarrassing.

    Talking about marketing, they did not even take the time to create proper screenshots for their promotion material. The myTeamSpeak.com slide on the home page actually shows the options window of the desktop client where the screenshots of the mobile apps are supposed to be. They probably thought that nobody would notice.

    They seem to go for a "least effort" approach for everything that is not directly connected to "developing the software" and that's not enough to compete with Discord who are good at marketing and staying in touch with their community.

    Discord got a sub-reddit with 70k subscribers, feedback forms, a blog, promotion material, extensive user and developer documentation, merchandise and most importantly a funny way of talking to their users.

    And while you may consider dante696 a funny guy, there is more to keeping a community alive than just having a guy answer all the questions.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    December 2015
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHost View Post
    And while you may consider dante696 a funny guy, there is more to keeping a community alive than just having a guy answer all the questions.
    Most of them with "No" or some kind of strange workaround

  7. #82
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    Quote Originally Posted by xAzzzu View Post
    If it is so bloated why does it use less resources on my PC than Teamspeak ?
    Just installed Discord just to confirm I'm right. Of course I am.

    Memory usage when running x86 on x64 (TeamSpeak would be the only x64-enabled software in this list), connected to a server, voice enabled, not currently speaking:

    TeamSpeak:
    Private bytes: 70 MB
    Working set: 85 MB
    CPU: 0.6 %
    Full standalone download size: 66 MB
    Installed size: 150 MB

    Discord:
    Private bytes: 200 MB
    Working set: 260 MB
    CPU: 2.5 %
    Full standalone download size: doesn't exist
    Installed size: 160 MB

    For comparison - usual resources used by the YaTQA client (as a software designed for efficiency):
    Private bytes: ~15 MB
    Working set: <25 MB
    CPU: 0.02%
    Full standalone download size: 1.3 MB
    Installed size: 3 MB
    (Values cannot directly be compared, as you cannot talk in YaTQA.)
    Last edited by numma_cway; February 7th, 2018 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Added disk usage

  8. #83
    Join Date
    August 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    541
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks a bit different for me, mainly because i have a shitload of TS3 plugins installed and don't have BetterDiscord just now.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    Why do you have only one Discord? I have three programs named discord in my task manager. The usage from the main program matches mine, but there is one smaller one (not much more than YaTQA uses) and a very big one (around double the resources used by the main program).
    TeamSpeak should make a launcher application as well that uses 1 MB RAM.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    August 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    541
    Even if i count all three together they don't use as much

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #86
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    I don't know then. Maybe it's the operating system or the task manager you are using. I used Process Explorer on Win7.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    December 2015
    Posts
    273
    And even if you are right and its "heavily bloated" ( 200mb RAM and like 1-2% more CPU usage)

    No one will care about that. Its 2018. Nearly all "gamer" have 8gb of RAM or even 16gb+.
    And the absolut majority has a quad core CPU with around 3.2GHz

    So after all those "bloated resources usage"-facts are more like silly technician-defends trys to give ts3 some credit points.. somehow... somewhere...

    I personally don't care if a software uses x% more resources, when the UX is light-years better.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    I am not defending TeamSpeak. User xAzzzu claimed that Discord was better because it uses less ressources, but Discord uses 3 to 4 times the resources for me (which is what everyone would expect from Electron). That's all I said.

    I do know that people don't care about performance (look how wide-spread Java is), still I value performance as a developer.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    576
    You do a great job with YaTQA, numma_cway, but performance in terms of resource utilization isn't the most important thing in software development. More important for bigger projects is manageability, software-reuse for development and, for mass-distribution, usability for untrained end-users.

    Manageability enables you to produce high quality software, and to support and develop your software for years.
    Software-reuse reduces development time by orders of magnitude, which lowers the time to market, prevents your software from being obsolete before it is released, and off-loads troubleshooting and debugging to library providers.
    Usability opens your software to a broad audience.

    You get manageability by using state of the art software development tools, by using high-level languages, and by adhering to state of the art development methods.
    You get software-reuse by using state of the art libraries and components, and by adhering to standards, instead of programming everything by hand.
    You get usability by using state of the art design techniques.

    Resource utilization (this is what you probably mean with performance) isn't relevant. If the users' computers are able to run the software as envisioned, it is correctly designed. There is constant inflation in hardware; something that runs just barely on today's hardware, will run fine on tomorrow's hardware. Performance is what you get if you choose the correct libraries that implement efficient algorithms. Which is what you automatically get if you choose state of the art libraries and employ educated software designers and coders.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Posts
    273
    Look, this thread could go on forever. Lots of ideas posted, on and on.

    What is really needed is for the devs to communicate what their intention is here moving forward. Write a letter to the community or something and acknowledge the key points that have been brought up here and let us know that you are working on something, even if for business reasons you don't go into specifics yet.

    Without this, further posts on this topic are pointless.

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