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  1. #1
    Join Date
    November 2015
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    109

    Redo NPL Licensing requirements

    You could be more lenient on handing out licenses, I mean the majority of your userbase are gamers...

    Perhaps offer a non profit license to communitys without the need to have a domain email domain. And stuff like in between the quotes, remove that..

    When we verify your website, it CANNOT have any donation buttons, advertising, marketplace/stores/shops, or commercial activity of any kind. It must also not contain links to other websites with commercial activity.

    This change can be good against competition, the more users the more they may need to buy an IOS or Android app.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    February 2014
    Posts
    280
    Do you understand what "Non-profit means"?

    This is why they wont allow donation buttons etc.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    January 2010
    Location
    Secret Base in Arctic Region
    Posts
    1,671
    The rules and licence Agreements had to be changed some years ago due to violations and manipulations.
    Besides that, Teamspeak Systems is not obliged to give out "free" licences, it their own free decision.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    March 2016
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick1164 View Post
    Do you understand what "Non-profit means"?

    This is why they wont allow donation buttons etc.
    Well i have to say to you, that Non-profit definitely not means that it isn't allowed to take donations


    Because in fact "Non-profit" means:


    That no economic profit is achieved

    And

    That it is quite permissible to accept money. E.g. In the form of membership fees or donations or other kind of fees



    So that what teamspeak offers as a "Non-Profit" License isnt really meant as a Non-Profit-system in the usual way.



    In fact, it is necessary to rename that license type


    Just as a hint:

    think about the Non-profit-Organisations out there - they can never get a teamspeak 3 license because they taking money in different ways and types (isnt it funny? )


    I hope no one feels now offended by that, but thats in fact what Non-Profit means.


    regards


    Shadow86

  5. #5
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,371
    How is TeamSpeak supposed to know if you are making profit or not? It depends on how much you earn and how much you pay. Both depends on many factors TeamSpeak cannot safely verify.

    For example:
    Rent a decent server for TeamSpeak and add some domain. In Germany, that's like 10 euros per year for the server and 2 euros per year for the domain. Have three member donate 5 euros that year and you are making profit. Such server running an NPL can easily handle 512 slots so if you have that many people on your server, there are many potential donors.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    November 2015
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick1164 View Post
    Do you understand what "Non-profit means"?

    This is why they wont allow donation buttons etc.
    Google what a non profit is, non profits can accept donations.

    Quote Originally Posted by numma_cway View Post
    2 euros per year for the domain.

    hahaha maybe in Germany, but not the rest of the world.


    Have three member donate 5 euros that year and you are making profit. Such server running an NPL can easily handle 512 slots so if you have that many people on your server, there are many potential donors.
    Yet many gaming communities have issues paying. Factor in game servers, web server for site/forum/ts3.

    What's the point of AAL 32 slots 1 virtual server for $30?? Isn't 32 slots free already?
    Last edited by dante696; October 21st, 2016 at 08:39 AM. Reason: merged

  7. #7
    Join Date
    June 2008
    Posts
    18,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcazar View Post
    The rules and licence Agreements had to be changed some years ago due to violations and manipulations.
    Besides that, Teamspeak Systems is not obliged to give out "free" licences, it their own free decision.
    This is exactly why we are in that situation (this also happened on TS2) and i don't think this will change back.
    There are still users outside who abuse this and we have to investigate with our own men power here ......

    Quote Originally Posted by AGamer View Post
    What's the point of AAL 32 slots 1 virtual server for $30?? Isn't 32 slots free already?
    32 slots (without AAL and ATHP license) are also for Non Profit situations.

    http://sales.teamspeakusa.com/licensing.php
    TeamSpeak is provided free of charge for non-commercial groups or individuals who wish to host their own TeamSpeak servers in a limited capacity. To use TeamSpeak without a license, just download and install the TeamSpeak server -- no signup is required. Unlicensed use of TeamSpeak 2 is limited to two virtual servers with up to 1000 combined slots, while unlicensed use of TeamSpeak 3 is limited to one virtual server with up to 32 slots.

    Unlicensed use is ideal for: Friends & family, small gaming clans/guilds, online study groups, church groups.
    Last edited by dante696; October 21st, 2016 at 08:45 AM. Reason: quotes added
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,371
    Quote Originally Posted by AGamer View Post
    Google what a non profit is, non profits can accept donations.
    see above

    Quote Originally Posted by AGamer View Post
    Yet many gaming communities have issues paying. Factor in game servers, web server for site/forum/ts3.
    Well, web server was included in the price for the TS server. If you're paying more than a euro for a web server and a TeamSpeak server together, you can't attribute that to TeamSpeak. I'm running both on the same machine, they take about 150 MB of RAM together. We're not living in the time anymore where people needed a root server for a game server. You should be fine with a few euros a month for a VPS that can run like 2 or 3 game servers. If you can't afford that from your pocket money, this amount should be something that you can discuss in private with your friends instead of publicly asking for donations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apelli View Post
    What can I say, it seems nice to live in Deutschland, cheapest I could find here at my place is 2 euro per month, and the DNS registrar goes 20$ per year for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGamer View Post
    hahaha maybe in Germany, but not the rest of the world.
    You can't expect TeamSpeak to take into account the prices of the like thousand TLDs there are now, can you? It's your choice which domain you rent. I also don't complain because I chose to rent a domain from Qatar which is 49 euros per year.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    February 2014
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by numma_cway View Post
    How is TeamSpeak supposed to know if you are making profit or not? It depends on how much you earn and how much you pay. Both depends on many factors TeamSpeak cannot safely verify.

    For example:
    Rent a decent server for TeamSpeak and add some domain. In Germany, that's like 10 euros per year for the server and 2 euros per year for the domain. Have three member donate 5 euros that year and you are making profit. Such server running an NPL can easily handle 512 slots so if you have that many people on your server, there are many potential donors.
    That's the exact issue, all these people wanting it to be "revamped" so they can take donations to "pay the minimal costs to run their servers". In reality, they probably just want to make a bit of money off the regulars that use their servers.

    I see way too many people with NPL' licenses trying to advertise affiliates, take donations etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow86 View Post
    Well i have to say to you, that Non-profit definitely not means that it isn't allowed to take donations


    Because in fact "Non-profit" means:


    That no economic profit is achieved

    And

    That it is quite permissible to accept money. E.g. In the form of membership fees or donations or other kind of fees



    So that what teamspeak offers as a "Non-Profit" License isnt really meant as a Non-Profit-system in the usual way.



    In fact, it is necessary to rename that license type


    Just as a hint:

    think about the Non-profit-Organisations out there - they can never get a teamspeak 3 license because they taking money in different ways and types (isnt it funny? )


    I hope no one feels now offended by that, but thats in fact what Non-Profit means.


    regards


    Shadow86
    Just because some legally registered non-profit organisations accept donations to fund their costs, doesn't mean you should be allowed to under an NPL license.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    576
    Teamspeak is free to design their license their own way.

    As far as I understand, the current rules were set after it was discovered that companies get NPL's in large numbers, set up servers with them and sell Teamspeak hosting with that. Only to prevent this kind of abuse, the current rules were made. Every part of the NPL requirements fight this. Take one out, and you are back with the abuse.

    The funny thing is, at release you weren't able to operate a Teamspeak 3 server without license. You had to apply for one. It was a must. I, for example, had to apply for an NPL on one of the first days after public availability of the beta server for my tiny server operated at home over DSL, although we never had more than about 10 people on the server. Everyone who applied got one. It's from this time the many abused NPLs come from, I suppose.

    Much later I discovered at some point in the past a license was not required any more for 32 slots, and even much more later I discovered the tightened rules on the NPL. My server got almost compliant with the new rules: it outgrew the DSL at home and got a static IP, its own domain and mail. It runs of course still without donations, since it runs piggyback on my private mail, web and vpn server, which I pay off my own purse.

    Only the active community website requirement is not compliant, since we don't have any self-hosted web activity for our gaming community. We tried this, but people these days are going to big social networks and create their rooms there: facebook, twitter, twitch, reddit etc. A local forum is simply not visited any more. Announcements are made on facebook or twitter. Discussions as well, and on reddit. If you ask me of my opinion, if there is anything to drop from the license requirements, it's the active community website requirement.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    February 2014
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlumpi View Post
    Only the active community website requirement is not compliant, since we don't have any self-hosted web activity for our gaming community. We tried this, but people these days are going to big social networks and create their rooms there: facebook, twitter, twitch, reddit etc. A local forum is simply not visited any more. Announcements are made on facebook or twitter. Discussions as well, and on reddit. If you ask me of my opinion, if there is anything to drop from the license requirements, it's the active community website requirement.
    I don't agree with this, I feel that this is what separates people trying to get an NPL they don't need and the people who are actually building a community. Where you make your announcement or build your community around is simply down to you as a community owner. If you build a community on a forum, it will grow. It will take time but it will eventually happen.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,371
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlumpi View Post
    The funny thing is, at release you weren't able to operate a Teamspeak 3 server without license. You had to apply for one. It was a must. I, for example, had to apply for an NPL on one of the first days after public availability of the beta server for my tiny server operated at home over DSL, although we never had more than about 10 people on the server. Everyone who applied got one. It's from this time the many abused NPLs come from, I suppose.

    Much later I discovered at some point in the past a license was not required any more for 32 slots, and even much more later I discovered the tightened rules on the NPL. My server got almost compliant with the new rules: it outgrew the DSL at home and got a static IP, its own domain and mail. It runs of course still without donations, since it runs piggyback on my private mail, web and vpn server, which I pay off my own purse.
    This is not correct. My first server is from the 19th of December 2009 (release date). I got my NPL on January 10th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlumpi View Post
    Only the active community website requirement is not compliant, since we don't have any self-hosted web activity for our gaming community. We tried this, but people these days are going to big social networks and create their rooms there: facebook, twitter, twitch, reddit etc. A local forum is simply not visited any more. Announcements are made on facebook or twitter. Discussions as well, and on reddit. If you ask me of my opinion, if there is anything to drop from the license requirements, it's the active community website requirement.
    Well, yeah. I agree with that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    576
    Well, my memory might not be correct. But I cannot see why I requested a NPL if 32 slots were free without license. Perhaps I was only trying to see if the application process works and I thought to myself: "get it now or never". I only remember how easy it was and how fast I got the license. That was on 23.12.2009 - I used the Christmas holiday to try that new voip server software. First, we continued to use TS2 because of the lesser bandwidth requirement, but later we moved after the voice quality of TS3 was increased tremendously. And the uplink of my DSL line.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    November 2016
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlumpi View Post
    Only the active community website requirement is not compliant, since we don't have any self-hosted web activity for our gaming community. We tried this, but people these days are going to big social networks and create their rooms there: facebook, twitter, twitch, reddit etc. A local forum is simply not visited any more. Announcements are made on facebook or twitter. Discussions as well, and on reddit. If you ask me of my opinion, if there is anything to drop from the license requirements, it's the active community website requirement.
    I totally agree with that.
    Nowaday gamers are on Steam Groups, Facebook, What'sApp, etc ...
    Even if I have a website and a forum, people don't come up, they prefere social media.
    It's even sometimes difficults to keep them on TeamSpeak instead of Discord ... when you need more than 32 slots, you have to choose between ask for a NPL but already denied cuz my website have not enough activity, or migrate on Mumble but chance are that nobody will follow you and then remains Discord and I don't want to use a spy software ... I don't like Facebook, and I don't like Discord, but with this licensing system we'll soon have no more choice.

    A one time fee to have more slots, or a NPL with less slots and more easier to obtain would be nice.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    December 2016
    Posts
    1
    Didn't read the whole thread, but i totally agree that the NPL requirements are not up to date at all.
    People just wouldn't use a forum anymore.
    Personally I've been running a server including Teamspeak for over 5 years now. We tried applying for a NPL multiple times because the 32 slots just aren't enough for our friends using the server at peak times, and we've always been denied because we don't have a forum.
    On the other hand, how would you verify that it is just a non-profit service?
    It's not that simple, really. Maybe check the domain being used, how long it's been active, if it points to a company, maybe check what other services are provided?
    Another good option might be to ask for a link to a social media presence with x users for a given server, personally i think this one would be the best option, since it would be hard to fake.

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