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  1. #1
    Join Date
    March 2017
    Posts
    1

    Question about GIF and how URL GFX Banner works

    Hello everyone.

    Recently ive discovered a huge memory issue while using Teamspeak Client version , the progam was using about 1,150 MB's of RAM, the point is this only happened while being in one of my frequent servers if i switch to another the use stays at 15-20 Mbs, the usual i guess, after some research i discovered the issue was an huge 1080p resolution GIF of 130 MBs size linked in the URL GFX Banner.

    The question is , why takes so much RAM? The first thing came to my mind was compression , maybe the GIF is naturally compressed and to be displayed needs to be uncompressed? But that makes no sense then why that behavior doesn't happen while navigating or viewing the GIF with Google Chrome ?

    The second is , maybe the URL GFX Banner mechanic is not designed to proper show of GIFs? Then the program stores in RAM over and over the GIF until certain limit ? This idea is even more crazy but couldn't figure out a reasonable reason.

    Any ideas ?

    And excuse my poor English , inst my first language.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2012
    Posts
    6,079
    All frames of the gif need to be cached in memory to allow for looping the gif. So for high res gif animations with potentially a lot of frames every single high res image will need to be kept in memory. Thus using a lot of RAM. Your only option is to ask the admin of the server to change the banner.
    When sending PMs please make sure to include a reference link to the thread in question in the body of your message.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    577
    A banner with 130MB? Really? Such insane banner size is what makes people with not so good internet connection or wlan connectivity come to this forum and write complaints like: "If I start Teamspeak, my game begins to lag!" because their TS client starts downloading the banner and saturating their network bandwidth.

    Ask the admin of the server to reduce the banner to a sane size. It would do only good to the users of that server.
    A sane banner size is well below 1MB. Around 100kb, if you ask me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,368
    This is actually a security issue if an admin can crash a user's client. Banner size should be limited to like 1 mebibyte and a maximum amount of RAM, like 8 mebibyte or so.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    All frames of the gif need to be cached in memory to allow for looping the gif. So for high res gif animations with potentially a lot of frames every single high res image will need to be kept in memory. Thus using a lot of RAM. Your only option is to ask the admin of the server to change the banner.
    My issue is the sheer amount of ram usage consumed by setting gifs as banners. We rotate our TeamSpeak banner a few times a day whenever we find humorous gifs, they generally range in size from a few mb to ~100mb.

    However, a .gif of 30mb will take my memory consumption from 50 - 100mb to 1.3 - 1.8gb. It doesn't really matter how large the gif is, if one is set, my memory usage skyrockets by 10-30x it's normal amount. This never happened to me in older TeamSpeak versions. This only started happening over the last 4-6 months or so.

    There's clearly a resource usage issue somewhere. This problem is not isolated to myself or any specific server. This happens to all of my friends across multiple servers.

    This is me being oonnected to 2 servers right now. Neither server is using a .gif as a banner. One is a 59.64kb .jpg, the other is a 13.67kb .png. I have no channels open with .gifs or images in the descriptions. Somehow my TS memory usage is:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	heUpVFF.png 
Views:	146 
Size:	5.7 KB 
ID:	15262
    http://i.imgur.com/heUpVFF.png
    Last edited by bmjslider; March 28th, 2017 at 12:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    4,368
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjslider View Post
    My issue is the sheer amount of ram usage consumed by setting gifs as banners. We rotate our TeamSpeak banner a few times a day whenever we find humorous gifs, they generally range in size from a few mb to ~100mb.

    However, a .gif of 30mb will take my memory consumption from 50 - 100mb to 1.3 - 1.8gb. It doesn't really matter how large the gif is, if one is set, my memory usage skyrockets by 10-30x it's normal amount. This never happened to me in older TeamSpeak versions. This only started happening over the last 4-6 months or so.

    There's clearly a resource usage issue somewhere. This problem is not isolated to myself or any specific server. This happens to all of my friends across multiple servers.

    This is me being oonnected to 2 servers right now. Neither server is using a .gif as a banner. One is a 59.64kb .jpg, the other is a 13.67kb .png. I have no channels open with .gifs or images in the descriptions. Somehow my TS memory usage is:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	heUpVFF.png 
Views:	146 
Size:	5.7 KB 
ID:	15262
    http://i.imgur.com/heUpVFF.png
    If you care about RAM, why do you use TeamSpeak x64? In general, do not use x64 software on Windows unless you have a reason to do so. The only 64-bit program I use is Guild Wars 2, because it has memory leaks and will crash after an hour or two on max details.
    I do not have significant memory usage from TeamSpeak, so there must be someone wrong with these servers. Feel free to post the IP so people can check what the reason for this is.
    In general, TeamSpeak uncompresses the banner and stores the content as bitmaps. Width*Height*Frames*3 Bytes. That RAM usage BTW is more than x86 clients could handle, (it's roughly 3.5 GB minus fragmentation), so it's definitely an exploit/security issue. See 42.zip on Wikipedia.

    Quote Originally Posted by m0m0lepr0 View Post
    Those limits are way too restrictive. More like 5 to 10 megabytes in download and 20 to 30 megabytes in RAM. Nowadays anyone who uses Teamspeak has at least 512mB of RAM if not 1gB.
    What on earth do you want to put in 5 to 10 MB of banners? Most admins think banners are solely for annoying users. They are not. There's a reason why people use adblockers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    September 2012
    Posts
    6,079
    Quote Originally Posted by numma_cway View Post
    In general, do not use x64 software on Windows unless you have a reason to do so. The only 64-bit program I use is Guild Wars 2, because it has memory leaks and will crash after an hour or two on max details.
    It's basically religion at this point.

    The difference is less than 10 MB in case of TeamSpeak, in other words nothing.
    Basically as long as you have any worthwhile amount of RAM in the system, it doesn't make any noticeable difference in amount of memory used and you may just as well use 64 bit applications.

    Idle:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ts3_x64-vs-x86--connected-idle-no-banner.png 
Views:	113 
Size:	2.6 KB 
ID:	15264

    Playing random large animated gif host banner:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ts3_x64-vs-x86--displaying-1080p-gif.png 
Views:	87 
Size:	2.7 KB 
ID:	15265

    On my 64bit System, the 32bit client is constantly using about twice as many CPU cycles though, so there's that...
    So it seems the choice is to either waste minuscule amount of memory and save on CPU cycles, or save minuscule amount of memory but instead waste twice as many CPU cycles constantly.
    Last edited by Chris; March 28th, 2017 at 04:58 PM.
    When sending PMs please make sure to include a reference link to the thread in question in the body of your message.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    4,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It's basically religion at this point.

    The difference is less than 10 MB in case of TeamSpeak, in other words nothing.
    Basically as long as you have any worthwhile amount of RAM in the system, it doesn't make any noticeable difference in amount of memory used and you may just as well use 64 bit applications.

    Idle:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ts3_x64-vs-x86--connected-idle-no-banner.png 
Views:	113 
Size:	2.6 KB 
ID:	15264

    Playing random large animated gif host banner:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ts3_x64-vs-x86--displaying-1080p-gif.png 
Views:	87 
Size:	2.7 KB 
ID:	15265

    On my 64bit System, the 32bit client is constantly using about twice as many CPU cycles though, so there's that...
    So it seems the choice is to either waste minuscule amount of memory and save on CPU cycles, or save minuscule amount of memory but instead waste twice as many CPU cycles constantly.
    RAM:
    The GIF is supposed to use <38 MB=1080*1920*18 (if done right) or <115 MB (if done wrong) of RAM. In TeamSpeak (but also in YaTQA), it uses ~150 MB of RAM. So we can assume 24-bit in memory for GIF. No memory leaks at least. Compressing a full HD animation with each frame just having solid color, one should be able to get gigabytes of RAM in a few kilobytes of GIF. Setting this as one's avatar will crash all TeamSpeak clients.

    CPU:
    The GIF uses 0.90% CPU on my laptop when playing unstretched (though small) and 5.5% if stretch while keeping the AR (indeed, x64 uses only 3.5%, whyever it does that, this is not in the margins of x64 or x86). For comparison: Downloading the GIF used 3 to 4% on both clients, so downloading a GIF is much more an issue on both clients.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by numma_cway View Post
    If you care about RAM, why do you use TeamSpeak x64? In general, do not use x64 software on Windows unless you have a reason to do so. The only 64-bit program I use is Guild Wars 2, because it has memory leaks and will crash after an hour or two on max details.
    I do not have significant memory usage from TeamSpeak, so there must be someone wrong with these servers. Feel free to post the IP so people can check what the reason for this is.
    I have 32 GB of RAM, so it's not that it's an issue for myself specifically, I'm just confused as to why TeamSpeak is actually somehow using 3.5 GB of RAM. I'm not complaining about my client not working, or really complaining at all. I'm just trying to notify the TS Team of an ongoing issue that myself and others have been having regarding extremely high RAM usage. Last night it wasn't even due to large .gif's being used, it just simply happened for some reason. It's not an issue for me since at worst it's still only hitting 5-10% of my RAM, but it has rendered other user's computers entirely useless until they've closed TS or have the SA remove the banner.

    What I don't really understand is, I've been using TeamSpeak since 2004, TeamSpeak 3 since the beta. Not once until sometime in the last 6 months has my RAM usage ever exceeded 1 GB. For half a decade we've been using whatever .gifs we want as the banner without any concern and increased RAM usage was never an issue. This has only started happening and really becoming a problem sometime over the last 6 months.


    Quote Originally Posted by numma_cway View Post
    In general, TeamSpeak uncompresses the banner and stores the content as bitmaps. Width*Height*Frames*3 Bytes. That RAM usage BTW is more than x86 clients could handle, (it's roughly 3.5 GB minus fragmentation), so it's definitely an exploit/security issue. See 42.zip on Wikipedia.

    What on earth do you want to put in 5 to 10 MB of banners? Most admins think banners are solely for annoying users. They are not. There's a reason why people use adblockers.
    I'm a part of some gaming communities. The banners are generally just the community's logo. They aren't ads, anything annoying or anything excessive, just the name of the community in a nice font and background. I understand when setting large/high def /.gifs that increased RAM usage is to be expected, but everything I've experienced over the last few months has been absolutely excessive.

    30 MB .gif is able to increase my RAM usage to 1.3 GB to 1.8 GB.
    Last night while being on 3 servers (with no .gifs in use) my RAM usage was increased to 3.4 GB. I don't think the response should be "then stop using the x64 version of the program", it should be "why the hell is TS using so much RAM?"

    I have a gaming community now with strict rules to not use .gifs as a banner and to not change the banner while anyone is gaming as it has a very high potential of causing performance issues in their game. TeamSpeak, being an application that is tailored towards gamers, should not be one of our greatest concerns for performance issues.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    June 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    Excessive RAM usage for GIFs has always existed in TeamSpeak. You just didn't use GIFs that large.
    I do agree that setting a GIF that can crash the client (x86) or fill your entire RAM (x64) is a bug. You can use monochrome frames with large solid areas which will compress into some kilobytes but will use gigabytes if uncompressed.

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