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  1. #16
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by naitsirk View Post
    4 cups of coffee and I can still not figure out how to make my friend get a <nick> / <password> with ServerAdmin rights.. ._.
    Do you have Server Admin rights?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    58
    Tell him to log on to your server, when he does click on his name. Copy his "Database ID". Open the permissions window and click on the group you want to add him to, then click the "Add" button on the right. Type in his "Database ID" that you just copied and click OK. Done.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    Across the street
    Posts
    216
    If this is really so difficult for most of you... then you have no business administering a server anyway. Let someone else host it for you and give you special permissions.

    Really... why is it that "server group X has Y permissions" is so terribly hard to understand?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    14
    Apart from possibly one of the least useful comments I have seen on these forums, the point you are missing is that there is no explanation of WHY certain groups have or need certain powers set at certain levels.

    For instance, when you give access to a specific permission that requires a value, it tends to give the default value of 75. Why? What is the acceptable range for values and what is the recommended setting for each level of access. Some values are even negative numbers (-1). Again, why?

    The whole thing is confusing.

    I muddled through it by basing new groups on existing ones and setting up all the permissions by comparing them to give sort of the access I wanted, but with no background detail on the permissions it wasn't a simple experience.

    I would suggest for most people (except for those voicing unhelpful and pompous comments), just focus on the server groups and base new access on existing groups. Forget about understanding what the values mean or worrying about the other four tiers and just deal with those.
    This is the sort of thing I have done:

    Server Admin: Unchanged. Only granted to the Server Owner and one or two deputies.
    Senior Admin: Identical to "Server Admin" but with reduced banning capability and no access to the virtual server settings.
    Moderator: Access based upon "Normal" group but with certain features increased to the same level as Server Admins (mostly those involving moving or kicking clients and the ability to create permanent channels)
    Normal: Unchanged. standard setting for members.
    Guest: Unchanged.

    That seems to work for my lot.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    April 2009
    Posts
    7
    My main confusion comes from the Power system. Is it ran as a type of immunity system as in Ventrilo, or is it related to the security levels that a client accumulates? I have based my permissions off the idea that they are an immunity, and so far has worked. A little clarification would be nice though. Other than that, the rest has been a trial and error. I do however think that if we could simplify it somehow, it would be better for future users in the long run. Again, I haven't really tested anything too extensively, so I could be missing some facts. If that is the case, I apologize.

    (Maybe a check box, granted=checked/denied=unchecked, and a box for immunity. You can only apply that power to clients with immunity lower than yours.)

  6. #21
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    Across the street
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
    Apart from possibly one of the least useful comments I have seen on these forums, the point you are missing is that there is no explanation of WHY certain groups have or need certain powers set at certain levels.
    It's not confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
    For instance, when you give access to a specific permission that requires a value, it tends to give the default value of 75. Why? What is the acceptable range for values and what is the recommended setting for each level of access. Some values are even negative numbers (-1). Again, why?
    That is just their recommended value. For instance... I have a group called "Server Masters" that has default permission level of 50 just because that is what I wanted them to have. I do not want them totally stripped of power, but I also do not want them to be god-like.

    They are allowed to grant talk power and create channels, but not allowed to kick Server Admins (they have 75 and up, depending on who they are) or move them to other channels.

    It's really NOT confusing. Just sit back and think about it... really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
    The whole thing is confusing.

    I muddled through it by basing new groups on existing ones and setting up all the permissions by comparing them to give sort of the access I wanted, but with no background detail on the permissions it wasn't a simple experience.
    Why was it not simple? If someone with a permission level of 50 tries to move someone with a permission level of 75, it won't work unless it is specifically granted.

    It could just be me, I guess. I spent an hour going over a "test" server and having friends log in and I changed their groups/permissions on an experimental level. I saw how it all worked when I told someone to try to do something to another person with a higher permission level and they couldn't do what I asked.

    THAT is what I've been trying to explain here... granted, I've not been exactly verbose about it, but I did say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
    I would suggest for most people (except for those voicing unhelpful and pompous comments), just focus on the server groups and base new access on existing groups. Forget about understanding what the values mean or worrying about the other four tiers and just deal with those.
    There is nothing pompous at all. You are just not sitting back and looking at it from all sides. You think it should be dumbed down to a point where it would actually be a coding nightmare to the developers when all you have to do is think about it for an hour.

    Anyway, my point and message still stands. If you can't take the time to figure it out, why bother trying to run it?

    That's like going to the C++ standards people and saying; "C++ needs to be more like VB." It's a ridiculous idea at best when all you have to do is learn a new syntax.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by T.S. Excreta View Post
    You think it should be dumbed down to a point where it would actually be a coding nightmare to the developers when all you have to do is think about it for an hour.

    Anyway, my point and message still stands. If you can't take the time to figure it out, why bother trying to run it?
    I think it is you who are missing the point and frankly, you're alienating the crowd needing assistance more than helping them.

    This support forum is to be inviting to those needing help, not to make them feel inferior for not being able to grasp at everything.

    Teamspeak, as a server, is designed with a target audience of gamers in mind. Not IT professionals, gamers. A grouping of people who want to play some Call of Duty or World of Warcraft. That is what they want to do when they sit down at their PC's, not 'think about permission systems' for an hour (your words, not mine).

    As I said in my earlier post, hopefully someone will create a nice, layman's terms guide and/or walkthrough for these permission systems once this gets out of beta so we don't see a divide in terms of adopters of the new system. I'd hate to have to have both TS2 and 3 installed because people chose to not update.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    Across the street
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by SingingHobo View Post
    I think it is you who are missing the point and frankly, you're alienating the crowd needing assistance more than helping them.
    I am not missing any points. I understand the points presented here, which boil down to - "Please, hold my hand. Help me. I don't like to help myself."

    Quote Originally Posted by SingingHobo View Post
    This support forum is to be inviting to those needing help, not to make them feel inferior for not being able to grasp at everything.
    If you hold everyone's hand, then they will never figure things out for themselves. This means they need others to do the work for them... which is why servers can be rented. You rent them so that OTHER PEOPLE can take care of the confusing aspects of hosting, while you and your clan or guild or legion or whatever can just sit back and communicate using voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by SingingHobo View Post
    Teamspeak, as a server, is designed with a target audience of gamers in mind. Not IT professionals, gamers. A grouping of people who want to play some Call of Duty or World of Warcraft. That is what they want to do when they sit down at their PC's, not 'think about permission systems' for an hour (your words, not mine).
    TeamSpeak, as a server, is designed with more than just gamers in mind. If you read the TeamSpeak mission statement, you see that they are also targeting businesses as well. Their own literature states that it would be a great place to hold meetings and such. It is NOT specifically geared toward ONLY gamers (your words, not mine).

    If they don't want to take an hour out of their precious gaming time to figure out the blatantly easy permissions system of TS3, then I ask again - why bother trying to run it?

    It's not point and click friendly. It, in fact, REQUIRES you to take a more hands-on approach to securing your server. If you need every aspect of "50 is greater than 75" explained to you, then you seriously shouldn't be running it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SingingHobo View Post
    As I said in my earlier post, hopefully someone will create a nice, layman's terms guide and/or walkthrough for these permission systems once this gets out of beta so we don't see a divide in terms of adopters of the new system. I'd hate to have to have both TS2 and 3 installed because people chose to not update.
    Some person eventually will do that. Sure, it will be darned tootin' nice of them as well. But for now... just listen to those of us who are trying to help you help yourself. I gave a minimal (at best, admittedly) example in a previous post in this thread. I gave a way for you (general term, "you") to SEE how it works, rather than having someone take their precious time to write the book "TeamSpeak 3 Server for Dummies."

    I keep saying it over and over and you keep missing it over and over. It is not rocket science. In fact, I am not even SURE that it can be made any easier than it already is.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    4

    Simplify The User Interface - KISS!

    Many thanks Hobo for your constructive comments. We were losing faith in ever getting any positive feedback from the forums other than assurances that the system was simple. Unfortunately, as seen by the many posts world wide on the new system, it is not.

    However, following further discussions with our colleagues, we have decided to put the TS3 Implementation Project on hold for the moment and will maintain the existing infrastructure which is working perfectly for our needs.

    Hopefully, the developers and sales team will take on board seriously the comments being expressed by the majority of users of their product and go on to final release with an extremely friendly user interface orientated towards those users who are not IT Technocrats but most likely make up the greater majority of the revenue base income stream for their organisation.

    There is absolutely no doubt that if the programme can do half of what it is supposed to do it will be a winner. But, if only the minority specialist IT user base can make sense of it, it will be put in the too hard basket and fall by the wayside. Always remember two things in marketing a product - make sure it does what the majority of users really want it to do (not what the technocrats would like) and make sure that the majority of your user base can practicably and easily use it with confidence in the permissions allocated.

    Put it out in its present format and it will simply fall into a specialists' niche market.

    Make it work with the winning UI you already have on the existing product in a simple straightforward "tick the box or leave it clear" approach with a standalone Superadmin to the system via a simple Web Admin access, user groups of Server Admin, Guest, Registered User etc, and (with the technocrats in mind) put in an Advanced Users tab for those who want the ultimate tweaking experience, and we are sure it will be embraced globally and surplant every competitor.

    There is no doubt that you have a winner underneath all that coding somewhere - BUT - we have to be able to use it - SIMPLY!
    Last edited by Onyxia; December 30th, 2009 at 02:01 AM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    4
    We have just been reading through the comments posted.

    We sincerely hope that the developers and organisation are not being advised by the contibutor here called "T.S. EXCRETA".

    The name we think says it all.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    December 2004
    Location
    RF
    Posts
    3,008
    The permissions and freely made groups is good. It is known and widely used and recognized. But this mess with "power" is just for a waste. "K00l" idea, that did not bore a fruit in the end. Just screw it and go with simple channels-groups-permissions.
    Everyone will be happy.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by T.S. Excreta View Post
    If you hold everyone's hand, then they will never figure things out for themselves. This means they need others to do the work for them... which is why servers can be rented. You rent them so that OTHER PEOPLE can take care of the confusing aspects of hosting, while you and your clan or guild or legion or whatever can just sit back and communicate using voice.
    I agree on the first point if u dont try u never understand, but the second part is useless, cause the permissions side is in fact for the people that rent your server.
    Meaning they will ask u how it works, cause u will provide 100% support for your stuff u also need to know how it works.
    Basically i think more people can set a TS3 server up and run them then there are people who understand the permissions. And dont forget people are from all over the world, so reading and understanding can be hard.

    Its just allot of work to get your head around the permissions, and i also like to see it simplified but i think they are aware of it and work on it.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3
    I've just cancelled my server.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    February 2005
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by T.S. Excreta View Post
    TeamSpeak, as a server, is designed with more than just gamers in mind. If you read the TeamSpeak mission statement, you see that they are also targeting businesses as well. Their own literature states that it would be a great place to hold meetings and such. It is NOT specifically geared toward ONLY gamers (your words, not mine).
    I can't see any business using TS3 with the permissions system the way it is designed right now. Every single business IT system I've seen controls authentication via user IDs and passwords, and if you want to introduce a system it needs to plug into existing authentication mechanisms.

    Using whatever nickname you want, no userID/passwords and passing around tokens manually simply will not fly in a business environment.

    Cheers!

    Luke

  15. #30
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    9

    Angry

    The tokens system is freaking ridiculous! And the permissions are incredibly hard to follow, so hard to follow that it might make things even less secure because it seems easy to make a mistake in the vast amount of options.

    And what if you lose your token? They aren't exactly easy to remember! Are you locked out of administrating your server?

    If the devs really feel this is the best system couldn't they at least give us the option of using a username / password system instead?

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