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  1. #1
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    33

    Simplify the permission system?

    I still don't see the purpose of having server groups (which you can only enter using the tokens) and the custom channel groups which don't seem to be serving any major purpose because most rights have already been issued in the server groups.

    It would already be more user friendly if you do not need to give every user a token to enter a server group. The idea of having tokens is OK, because you can email the tokens if the user are not online. But why not add a menu item so that people can be assigned to a server group without having to issue a token?

    And please please please make subchannels inherit all of the permissions of the top channel so that we dont have to do all of the changes to the permissions for every channel over and over again!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    July 2004
    Location
    Oirschot, Netherlands
    Posts
    123
    If you are a serveradmin, you can go to permissions, server groups. Select the proper server group (in this case Admins) and on the right you will see cients, below that press add and insert the persons database id. (Database id can be found by selecting an online user and look what value his database id is, shown by default)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    18
    i'm the same oppinion as mvdstroom.

    The permission system is way to complex. In fact if you want to change the needed join power of a channel, it would be great to to this by a rightclick and then "edit channel".

    In the moment you can give a channel kickpower....wtf? a channel can have the same permissions as an Admin??? he cant use it anyhow....this whole permission systems makes things more complicated then they have to be. TS3 isn't much better then ts2...but its way more difficult to administrate....

    Sure, to go to the Server group window and add a client by adding his database id isn't that hard, but god knows how many times i had to alt-tab back to the desktop duiring a game to give someone admin rights. in ts2 it was enough to make a rightclick on the user....now it's much more work....for what???

    Sure, if there are more permissions you can set, then its clear, that the whole administration is more complex, but there are many ways to make it WAY mor easier then it is in the moment.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    July 2004
    Location
    Oirschot, Netherlands
    Posts
    123
    hehe i so loved that right click function in ts2 to set somebody serveradmin, and all the people complaining they got hacked.... the crappy hotkey behind it even, gave me a lot of work.

    Yet they removed it for good reason! You should not be able to set somebody serveradmin so easily!

    Though i have to admit for normal groups it could have been easier.

    If you don't like it go have fun with TS2 with 3 sec latency or ventrilo which crashes as soon as a lot of people are on the server.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by KiLLers NL View Post
    ..all the people complaining they got hacked.... the crappy hotkey behind it even, gave me a lot of work.

    Yet they removed it for good reason! You should not be able to set somebody serveradmin so easily!
    Yes you should^^. EXACTLY this is the advantage of TS3. You can make several different admins. you can make a, lets say, "mini" Server admin, which has every important permissions, but cant change the server settings, AND CANT MAKE ANOTHER USER AN ADMIN. So this mini Server admin can work like in ts2, and only one person on the whole server has got true 100% Admin permissions. So nothing can go wrong and even if someone gets "mini" sa, they can't hack something...they just can eddit some channels....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    14
    I agree with Fastgiga, ideally there should be several server groups:

    Superadmin: (as current Server Admin)
    Server Admin: (as above but no ability to affect server settings or create new admins)
    Moderators: (less powers than Admins but can edit/create channels and kick users)
    Members: (can create temporary channels and edit those, send text to current channel, receive files, etc. but cannot edit permanent channels or kick users)
    Guests: Can move to any standard channels, but cannot create channels or send text.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    4

    I agree needs to be simpler........KISS!

    I totally agree the permissions system has to be simpler and easy to admin. In TS2 all you had to do was take away the ability to give (SA) and that was no problem. Most of us who use TS are not IT technocrats and database wizzkids! A program not only has to deliver the objectives desired, but also be USER FRIENDLY to cater for the majority of users. We have been at this permissions thing now for days, have read all the forums posts, FAQ's and comments we could google globally and still we are lost.

    We need some better set out documentation that explains what everything does and HOW to do it!! In TS2 you could tell at a glance what groups of users could or could not do. In TS3 we are wading through folder after folder of permission settings that explain nothing at all to the non-IT user and leave us all frustrated and mentally exhausted trying get permissions right to allow the new server to go live. What is the point if a guest user can log in and make a nuisance of themselves or wipe half the server?

    Meantime thank god for TS2!

    I make these comments on behalf of the non-IT Technocrats in good faith and in the hope that you do make the system more user friendly and in the short term produce some documentation that explains EVERYTHING to us.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3
    I have to agree, I'm totally overwhelmed with the amount of options available, I feel totally alienated by it all. I don't even know where to start.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    58
    Just take it 1 step at a time, it's really not that hard.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    Across the street
    Posts
    216
    As easy as the permission system is to work with and handle after just spending an hour with it, messing around, I see no reason anymore to "simplify" it at all.

    It's not difficult to use. It's not confusing. It's very powerful, flexible and manageable.

    Just play around with it. Change settings, see what happens and move on. You will learn it.. no need for making it dumb at all.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16
    I'm of the 'toss into the deep end' mentality when it comes to the permissions here.

    Yes, at first it's a bit overwhelming to use, but once you finally see what's going on, it's a fantastic system and quite easy to administer.

    I'm quite happy with the flexibility over TS2 in this regard.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    4

    Make it simpler - KISS

    Thank you so much for all the comments on how easy it is to use. However, it is noted, that not one reply has included any useful information as to HOW to go about doing it. Like I said at the outset of my post, we are noobs not IT database specialists. Useful information and constructive feedback would be so helpful. We have never heard of database managers until we wanted to set up access to the server. What do the headings "Value, Skip, Negate, Grant do and mean? How do we access those as at the moment some have a cross in them and the rest are blank. Why do we now have new groups for Guest Server Query and several normal, guest and server admin groups? Where did these come from? What have we done? Does this new Guest Server Query group now mean that guests on the server can access the virtual server commands? We manged to login to the server but most of the "powers" are still at 75 - what does this mean?

    We are not suggesting that you make the system dumb! We are suggesting that you make it User Friendly. The Commercial grave yard is littered with the corpses of wonderful new products and inventions that failed on targetted market uptake because the majority of intended users in the market could not understand them. There is no doubt that the Developers of this system have spent hours and hours of work to get recognition for their product - and hopefully revenue from licence sales for their efforts.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that the majority of that market base are users who are not IT Specialists (like us just noobs). If a business unit, in addition to the licencing costs, has also got to hire a specialist or staff to setup and admin the system on an ongoing basis they will look seriously at the over all budget costs of uptake and migration.

    A simpler approach would be to have the groups like the older system does with a panel that opens up with all the permissions in it for that group. You place a tick in the box if you want to grant it or leave it blank. At the bottom can be a slider bar to allocate the level - 25, 50, 75,100 etc. You can then see at once glance what each user group permissions are. You can also have an "Add User Group" buttom to customise any specialities. Keep the Superadmin concept that uses a web admin UI and remains distant from the Server Admin group. Keep the sytem whereby you can at least log in a guest user to test the permissions and monitor channels - at the moment the new system gives us one access identity and thats it. We cannot even log in now as a guest to check if we have it right or not.

    Gentlemen, we are looking for help and positive answers, not assurances that the sytem is simple. From where we sit in the scheme of things it is not.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    19
    I agree 100%

    The permission system is not user friendly at all.

    Teamspeak 2 was very simple and like someone said we are not all devs or programmers.
    I currently see the permission system a real mess

  14. #14
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16
    I am totally in agreement with your situation, Onyxia. I personally apologize for suggesting that you were a 'noob', in fact, I too found the situation overwhelming and I am in IT!

    First and foremost, I don't want to jump onto the lack of documentation bandwagon since the server (and client for that matter) are still in beta. I doubt that a Teamspeak specific guide to permissions will be released until we see a final release. This, of course, being over and above the documentation that is currently supplied. To be clear, the documentation does answer all the questions, but it's not written in layman's terms.

    I'll tell you how I've set up my server with my permissions and, hopefully, will shed some light on your situation and perhaps clear some of the fog. Also, I'll be explaining it as I understand it. I could sorely be mistaken :P

    First, you need to ensure you (or the super admin) has level 100. I found this post (http://forum.teamspeak.com/showthread.php?t=46779) to be quite helpful and to the point.

    Once you've accomplished this (perhaps a fresh install, starting from scratch would be best) then move onto permissions.

    For me, I ignored everything in all of the tabs. They serve no real use unless you want absolute control over every channel, every member and every possible situation. All of which, will come with further understanding of the system. For now, concentrate solely on the Server Groups.

    (I'm going from memory here, so please, pardon any nit picky mistakes on my part)

    At level 100, from top to bottom you'll have 5 groups with icons beside them on the left and a few default groups under those that may share the same name. For all rights and purposes, you can delete the groups without icons as you'll be creating new ones.

    Create a new group by pressing Add and for the sake of my example, we'll call it 'Test'. The group will be created, select it and we're all set to go.

    In the window to the right, right click and choose expand all. This will make browsing your options a bit easier until you get the hang of it. You'll notice that a lot of the rules are light grey in color. These rules for the Test group are not assigned or to be even more blunt, pretend they don't exist at all.

    Lets give the Test group the 'list permissions available' option under Global > Information (should be one of the very first items in the top group if you haven't scrolled down in the right hand window). Right click on it and choose Grant Permission. By default, the Grant column will have a 100 set and the first three columns will be empty. Put a check in the Value box.

    You are done.

    In layman's terms, what you have done is said that anyone a part of the test group, with security level 100, will be able to list permissions globally of this virtual server.

    Make sense?

    The Skip and Negate columns don't serve me any use. In my case, I either want the Test group to either be able to list the permissions, or not at all.

    If you have granted a group permission to do something and later, decide that it isn't wise, right clicking on the rule and choosing remove permission reverts the rule to a light grey state.

    Security Levels are a bit more confusing to use, but it works like this (as I understand it).

    The minute someone connects to your TS server, they are security level 0. A few seconds go by and they become a 1, then a 2 and it increases exponentially from there. As per the client, it states that security level 44+ would take years to obtain.

    In a real life example, try this. In the upper part of the right hand window, you'll see a line for filter. Type in kick and you'll see 2 options:

    Client Kick Power
    Needed Client Kick Power

    Right click on Client Kick Power and choose grant. By default, it should put a value of 100 in the Value column. Double click the 100 and change it to 25 and hit enter.

    Now what you have done is this:

    A member of the Test group can now kick someone from teamspeak provided that member has been connected for around 30 minutes.

    You can see all these security level values in the client by right clicking your server, choosing edit virtual server, clicking the more button and selecting the security tab.

    On my server, I have both the kick and the needed kick power options set to 25 and 50 respectively for my admin group. What this means is, an Admin cannot kick another user until they've been connected for about 30 minutes and cannot themselves be kicked unless the person doing the kicking is level 50 or higher.

    OR

    An Admin cannot kick me (level 100) but I can surely kick them, the ungrateful bastards!

    I hope this all makes sense, it is 3:00 in the morning and I'm at work...

    Assuming I'm on the right page, it should give you a bit of a start. If you still continue to have difficulty, PM me, I'll see what I can help with.

    As an aside, you may notice, once the server is up, members of your newly formed server groups still show as guest when you select their name in the client. This is their 'Channel Group' not their 'Server Group'. The users will still have their inherited server permissions.

    -Hobo

    PS: I haven't touched on tokens or anything either. I'd gladly explain how they work if needed.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    July 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    76
    4 cups of coffee and I can still not figure out how to make my friend get a <nick> / <password> with ServerAdmin rights.. ._.

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