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  1. #1
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    Question [Suggestion] Needed Channel Modify Power, expand its jurisdiction to chan-group assig

    You can place a power requirement on a channel in order that only people who meet that requirement can modify the channel. I think the effect of this "needed channel modify power" should be expanded to also include assigning channel group's to people in that channel and the creation of channel group tokens for that channel.

    Let me explain why.

    The modify requirement power makes sure that a user cannot edit the channel. However if they have enough "member add" power they can just either make a token for a channel group for a given channel and use it themselves to bypass security and then modify the channel because now they have the rights to modify it. Or they can add users to a channel group for a given channel through the "See users in channel group" ability.

    So, really, the needed modify for channels does not prevent someone from modifying it because they can either add themselves as channel admin from two different methods, assuming they cannot just enter and assign it to themselves via a simple right click.

    Would it not make more sense to have the needed channel modify power also prevent channel group assigning for that particular channel? Otherwise it is kind of useless to use channel modify power requirements if they can just so easily be circumvented. I have had to prevent my admins from being able to make tokens as well as see users of channel groups to prevent admins from adding users or themselves to channel groups for channels they have no business messing with. I have other groups in our server and I do not want my top level admins just being able to go editing peoples channels so hypothetically they could break in to private channels. So, I have come up with a work around for now, but that means I have to take away two very useful admin abilities, token creation and viewing (which lets you add) users of channel groups. I would like my admins to be able to use these features to aid in automating almost, the process of adding new groups to our server via a simple token that gives a clan leader 1st Admin over their new section. But I cannot because it can be used to create a token that they can use to get admin themselves for channels that they don't actually have admin in.

    My top level "server group" admins have powers of 70 as opposed to my main account which has all 75's. My channel admins have 75 modify powers for channels, so that a channel owner can lock it down as much as possible. By default modify powers for channels are 0 which means by default my admins would be able to create a token to aid in the process of helping new groups get set up quickly without needing an admin present. If then, a clan leader or what ever who has admin over their channels sets the modify requirement to 75, (I think..) it should then prevent my admins who have powers of 70 from being able to assign channel groups to people/make tokens for the channel that they no longer have adequate modify power for.

    That would be perfect. It would not hamper general operation of a server and if a server is configured to let channel admin's have channel modify powers of 75 it would let a channel admin be sure that nobody could mess with or break into their channel. (given that skip channel groups is disabled like I choose to do). So, all in all this change I propose would not effect a server by default because admins have skip ability for channel groups, but it would allow extra control and security if a server owner wishes people to have it.

    What are your thoughts on this? I think it would be very easy to implement. The server would simply check the users channel modify power with the requirement of the channel before allowing the assigning of channel groups or tokens for channel groups for a channel. If the person's modify power is too low then it would error and simply say "Insufficient channel modify power" or what ever.

    EDIT: Please look at the 4th post for another implementation of this idea that has zero impact on servers unless someone explicitly enables the feature.
    Last edited by Morthawt; February 3rd, 2013 at 05:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Me thinks Dante or his apprentice ( ) Chris will use their favorite word "rejected"...
    If an user creates a channel or is assigned a channel group like CA (or any other with edit permissions) he should be able to edit this channel. That what Channel Groups are for (or at least meant for...).
    Channel that should not be edited / deleted by users should have a higher "i_channel_needed_modify_power" and "i_channel_needed_permission_modify_power" then the user have.
    On our Public i. e. me could grant you "Management" Access, which is similar to the normal "Server Admin" group and you wont be able to edit or delete certain channels.

  3. #3
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    Thats the beauty of my suggestion. It still works like normal by default. It only does this extra protection if you specifically make new admin server groups that have a lower channel modify power. See? It has zero negative impact by default. It just provides you the extra security if you "Choose" to set other admins with a lower channel modify power.

  4. #4
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    Another way of implementing this would be a new permission being created that defaults to "Disabled":

    Name:  permission.png
Views: 244
Size:  46.5 KB

    That way it would be 100% guaranteed to not interfere with anything, yet could be easily enabled if you want this extra protection against people messing around assigning channel groups for channels they have no business "modifying". Because if your admins can assign channel groups to channels they themselves have no ability to edit, they CAN edit any channel they want by just giving themselves channel admin or accidentally/purposefully assigning channel groups to someone else in a channel they shouldn't, as it is currently. This kind of permission just gives people the choice to prevent such things happening while not breaking anything.

    I really hope this suggestion gets serious consideration.
    Last edited by Morthawt; February 3rd, 2013 at 05:25 PM.

  5. #5
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    You cannot assign channel groups in channels other than those where you have a channel group that has a high enough i_group_member_add_power. If however your server group has a high enough member_add_power to add the channel group then it will obviously work since you can assign the group on the entire server.

    The same goes for the Permissions -> Channel Groups of Client, which fails for other channels if you don't have the power in the target channel.

    There is however a Bug, when your server groups allows you to create tokens. In that case when you attempt to create a token and you are in a channel where you can assign the target channel group the server / client will not check if you have the permissions in the target channel. This bug will be fixed in some future version.

    As there is no problem with assigning channel groups outside your channel there is no need for this suggestion.

  6. #6
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    Well my admins have full member_add power. But they have no access to modify certain channels, yet they can still rightclick someone in there and add someone as channel admin. They can enter that channel and add themselves as channel admin if they want too because they have maximum member_add. I want my admins to have maximum member_add but still not be able to assign people channel groups in channels there they are not allowed to edit it.

    Are you saying that the exact thing I have mentioned is going to get fixed in a future version? Someone with maximum member_add but no ability to edit a channel won't be able to assign channel groups in that channel by any means?

  7. #7
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    If you can assign a group, you can do it. If you have serverwide member_add power you can assign groups. This is desired behavior

  8. #8
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    Ok, so in order to do what I want right now without a new feature, I would have to keep all my channels in a tree structure and give my admins their member add/remove power through a recursive channel admin? If I understand correctly that would mean they can assign server groups and channel groups but only channel groups could be assigned for channels they have their admin status in, correct?

  9. #9
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    If I understood you correctly then that sounds about right.
    Permissions you get from a channel group are only there if you have the group, if you try to mess with people outside of the area where you have the permissions it will fail.

  10. #10
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    Channels that are not to be edited by anyone but yourself, should have higher needed_powers as said above.
    Also, you should talk to your admins and advise them to leave your "certain channels" alone.
    If you enabled it, you can see changes in the log, so if they dont comply, remove their SA.

  11. #11
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    yes and I would. I am just trying to make things water tight. My current top level admins are my personal friends whom I trust greatly. I just want to make sure everything is perfect regardless.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    There is however a Bug, when your server groups allows you to create tokens. In that case when you attempt to create a token and you are in a channel where you can assign the target channel group the server / client will not check if you have the permissions in the target channel. This bug will be fixed in some future version.
    Is this a bug with the server or is it the client? If this is a server bug then that is ok because I can just block access to tokens but if it is a client bug then that means there could be exploits for the client to be able to view channel groups of client and perhaps assign people to a channel group like that..

  13. #13
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    As long as you don't have permission to create tokens that's fine, it's also fine if that permission is in the channel group. It's only a problem if it is assigned in a server group that has less member_add_power than the channel group.

  14. #14
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    Ok thanks. I will make tokens available again to my admins via channel group.

    So is that bug a server bug? Or is it a client bug?
    Last edited by Chris; February 6th, 2013 at 04:14 PM.

  15. #15
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    Next server release will only allow you to create tokens if you have enough member_add_power to assign the desired group in the target channel.

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